Is Bipolar Disorder an Excuse for Wretched Behavior?
A significant number (more than that of the general population) of those with bipolar disorder are highly creative and brilliant. Their contributions to our society are immeasurable. However, the media rarely, if ever, comments on the diagnosis of the scientist or the hero. And this is probably rightly so. After all bipolar disorder is the diagnosis and not the person.
However, the second someone -- most especially those in the public eye -- does something wrong it suddenly becomes important. It becomes the defining component of someone’s personality or behavior; it becomes the person and not the diagnosis. And this isn’t fair or just for anyone. To compound this, the lawyers often deliberately play this up. Yes, it is their job to defend their client but I find it offensive that in defending the one they vilify the many.
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You know just once I would love to see a headline that reads “Brilliant Scientist Discovers a New Antibiotic and Has Bipolar Disorder” or “Local Hero with Bipolar Disorder Saves Children from Fire.” But no … we get headlines like those all over the media this morning about Senator J. James Marzilli who has been accused of groping a number of women he accosted on the street. Now his lawyers are pushing forward this diagnosis of bipolar disorder as if that makes it understandable or even justifiable. Does this offend you as much as it offends me?
I do applaud the response of Wendy Murphy, the lawyer for one of the women involved. The Boston Globe quotes her as saying, "A lot of people have bipolar disorder, and they don't hurt others. And they certainly don't assault women in a sexual way, especially in such a prolific sexual way in the course of several years. If he thinks that's somehow justification for his behavior, he's wrong."
What do you think about all this? ~Kimberly
Comments
You know just once I would love to see a headline that reads “Brilliant Scientist Discovers a New Antibiotic and Has Bipolar Disorder” or “Local Hero with Bipolar Disorder Saves Children from Fire.”
I am sure that there are people with bipolar that do those things, more than you would know about. That was a very arrogant article, as well as Offensive, and downright predgidice. They dont stand up, and say thank you thank you, and By the way make sure you tell everyone I have a mental illness.
That man may have wretched behaviour, but he does have a mental illness, WHAT is your EXCUSE for your Behaviour.
Your comments are very misguided, Kimberly. I know you mean well, and you somehow think you are defending the reputations of “good” bipolar people by condemning someone you think is unfairly using the tag of “bipolar” to justify assaults. But first off, you’re judging the man when you should not. You don’t know the complete facts of the case and you haven’t heard testimony from his psychiatrist. Maybe he did have severe mania over an extended period of time and was hypersexual as a result. That’s not uncommon among us bipolar people. Second, as much as we might want to deny this, during manic episodes some of us CAN do aggressive, illegal, and highly embarrassing things that are totally out of character and which, during our more stable periods, cannot be explained easily. I’ve done some terrible things while manic and I am lucky I am not in jail. If you are going to continue to be a “guide” for this section, you will need to be a lot more empathetic, a lot less judgmental, and certainly should rarely or never stoop to accusing people of using bipolar disorder to justify poor choices. Sorry, you aren’t an expert (regardless of your supposed qualifications for this site) and you haven’t walked a mile in our moccasins. You don’t have the illness. So please, be much more sensitive in writing about, and for, those who do.
I have to agree with the others have said as well.The article has a underhanded way to it that caters more to the sensationalism that preoccupies our media channels today and its sad to see here.
I have to come to Kimberly’s defense a little bit here. I think that a major point in her article was that bipolar people (and others with mental illness) often get portrayed in a bad light in the popular media. I agree with her on this point. How many TV shows have you seen that portray people with mental illnesses as bad people? How many murders, rapists, and criminals have schitzophrenia or bipolar disorder on cop dramas? When have you seen a main character or hero on a show who has to deal with mental illness on a day to day basis (a reality for most of us)? Not very often I would wager. In this way I think that popular media has attached a bad stigma to people with mental illnesses. I think a lot more people would be comfortable seeking help for their problems if this stigma were to be broken. Also, how many of us have felt this same stigma and discrimination when we have been nice to have bipolar disorder portrayed in a good light for once, to highlight the high creativity and intellect that often accompanies the disease?
Although I can see Brian’s point, it is never a good idea to judge anyone for anything they may or may not do, I, also, must come to Kimberly’s defense. The question was not whether we felt the actions of the senator were bad, but rather, to ask if we, as people who live daily with a mental disorder, are tired of the media portraying us as lunatics and criminals. I, for one am most certainly tired of it! I am neither a lunatic, nor a criminal, and I am weary of the steriotypical characterizations that Hollywood chooses to represent both myself, and many others whom I know and love.
I’m definitely no expert on this disease, but I do have two close friends who struggle with it. Both are brilliant and marvelously talented, and both have done some eyebrow-raising things, many of which I’m likely not aware.
I think what we’re talking about here is whether you see the glass half empty or half full. Do people tend to see the questionable behavior or the brilliance? The media clearly sees the questionable, but that’s true in every case. The news is full of negativity. It’s too bad. I, for one, would love to see someone’s genius attributed to the disease. It would be a very small contribution to balance.
It is about taking responsibility for your actions no matter what mental illness you suffer from. Mental illness is not an excuse for bad behavior and those who try to use it as one belittle all others with such a disorder and shed a negative light on them.
It offends me deeply when others don’t hold themselves accountable…mental illness or not.
I agree with DivorceSupport. I’ve heard too many excuses from people with mental disorders in an attempt to justify their bad behavior. It’s a choice, and we’re not doing anyone any favors when we let things go under the guise of “oh, they have a mental illness – that’s why they do x and y.” It’s about holding yourself accountable.
In the mythological story of the Greek hero Heracles, one explanation for his outburst of mad behavior was that he had epilepsy. Even though there was an illness associated with his horrific behavior, he still had to pay for his bad behavior. Instead of a jail sentence, he had to perform the 12 labors, many of which were a form of community service.
I think it’s important, always, to look for the details and facts in media reports. (For the record, I have a bipolar relative.) I found when my husband was deployed that even some of our country’s most respected TV news anchors couldn’t resist adding details or altering facts when they didn’t have enough info to fill their broadcast slots…so I now assume that this is always true. Saying a person has bipolar disorder as either a justification or an excuse for criminal behavior isn’t really enough…is the person being treated? Is he or she getting the right treatment? Did this person have criminal tendencies before being diagnosed?
I do agree, it would be great to see some positive news reports about people with bipolar disorder and other mental health issues. Many people with bipolar disorder are great role models, good citizens, exemplary parents and grandparents…but good news doesn’t sell. It’s too bad, because we could all use more success stories about people with bipolar disorder who’ve made things work, and work well, for themselves.
Some very near and dear people in my life are bipolar, so when I hear a random stranger speak as if being bipolar is the end of the world, I usually try and correct them.
Just a few weeks ago a woman was all up in ears about her son’s recent diagnosis while perusing books at a local used book store. After introducing her to a couple of books that helped me understand the diagnosis, I shared that many, many successful and brilliant folks are also bipolar, and gave some examples.
She looked at me like I was crazy, and left the store without saying a word. I guess it may have been nicer of me to listen to her crying instead, but I’d thought a glimmer of hope that ALL wasn’t bad might be helpful. I guess not.
But I digress. Quite a few celebrities have already ‘come out’ saying they’ve been (or are ) depressed or other mental health issues; I think its only a matter of time before those who are bipolar do the same.
i personally think that people use mental diagnoses as an excuse for poor behavior and decision making. the reason we see so many negative things in the news is because that is what sells newspapers, not to mention ads on t.v. it is the only reason they don’t advertise the fact that folks who just happen to have bp usually contribute a great deal to society in a positive manner.
please dont let me get started talking about this subject i have a wife i met in 1975 who has bp,ocd,skzoid,narcasistic,and several other things worse. plus a nephew who is bp and a son maybe 2 sons who are bp and more, and you know they drive ne nuts every day!!!!aint much i havent been through>>would take forever 2 tell it all..
You know, it really, really hurts to read all of these comments that begin with “I have some very good friends” or “people I am close to” or “people I work with” who have bipolar disease. Well I actually have it myself. My outburst of profanity shocked so many of my church ‘friends’ that they asked me not to come to their little parties any more. I said “That sucks” one day. Well, I say a lot worse at times in general conversation; my family and few close friends know I have trouble controlling it. I am so nervous around people because of it that I see my ‘close friends’ perhaps once a month because the effort of trying to control and be ‘normal’ is just too much. I am one who takes my meds and very rarely forget. I have breakouts of symptoms at times like we all do. Now that we haved moved back to the old neighborhood again, I am watched like a hawk. Unfortunately I now live in the neighborhood completely populated by those same loving church women. Nobody has been to see me yet, nor do they wave when I walk my dog. I am leaving my husband next week because he refuses to leave here and I can’t live with it. I take care of myself, most days my house looks pretty good, I don’t often eat right, if it weren’t for my dog I wouldn’t exercise much – but isn’t that true of nearly every woman in America? What is not common is that I can’t bear to be in any room with several people in it, even if I am acquainted with them. If I were speaking to DivorceSupport I would use profanity. I too am deeply offended – at the callousness of some. How about mental and emotional cruelty that ‘crazy’ people with mental illnesses suffer?
To Donna: try not to begrudge the ones who can’t say that they have bipolar. Being able to empathize is not a choice, just like people can’t choose to not have bipolar.
To DivorceSupport: you’re right and you’re wrong. People’s ability to control their actions depends on the severity of their disorder (not everyone’s is the same) and the severity of the particular episode. There are a lot of external factors as well (like a strong set of morals, therapy, social support) that play a part. I think taking responsibility is important–if it’s possible. And it isn’t always.
As for Kimberly’s article, I wouldn’t necessarily want to see a headline reading “Local Hero with Bipolar Disorder Saves Children from Fire” because having bipolar has nothing to do with it (unless in an episode of mania he goes running in as the building is collapsing and thinks he’s invincible).
I think what Wendy Murphy said when quoted in the article was spot on–what about the many who have bipolar who don’t do wretched things? Mental illness should not be used as an excuse–which only adds to the stigma.
I disagree with most of what I ever read about bipolar or mental illness- because diagnosis is usually a generalisation to fit an institutional category or convenience. But yes, it is extremely maddening to see how often lawyers put forward mental illness as mitigation.
So what? If he is mentally ill all that affects is what should be done about it- not the moral responsibility he has towards others or to manage his life responsibly so that he doesn’t do damage in society. That applies equally whether someone is ill, personality disordered, has issues with anger, addiction or a disability. We are all equal now- the mentally ill included.
There are very few people who have absolutely no control over their behaviours, but even if they don’t- the responsibility falls to them, their caregivers and society ( wherever that balance lies in law and compassion ) to manage behaviours which harm others.
We’ve been taught that our every impulse must be acted upon in modern western society; the truth is sometimes what we want to do is wrong.
Anyone who wants to live well with a severe mental illness- that is their biggest lesson! but in truth it applies to everyone.
I have suffered from bipolar disorder since I was a child and I am a 28 year old man. I think that it is a legit illness in a lot of cases and is often misdiagnosed too.
One thing I believe is that people are responsible for their actions and deserve to be punished because of that. The insanity plea is specific and even when one is a legit candidate for that, they often are lock in secure mental hospitals for the rest of their life so there’s no freedom.
I do not have Bipolar Disorder but my husband does, and i Have witnessed the kinds of behviours in varying degrees to which you refer.
I totally agree with “Brian K, NO More Stigma, and Donna.” I have every sympathy and empathy for people who have this horrible illness ,which does indeed cause them significant lack of mental insight . Insight Is A concept the average person does not grasp, abd they think it is all to do with knowledge or awareness, which can help it on some level, but what is not realised or understood is that Mental Insight is something that can just go, when the brain is not functioning properly, just as if you had a knock on the head or as if you had consumed alcohol or drugs and it knocks out that inhibtion centre ,and decision making part of your brain, I am sure we are all guilty of that, and have said or done soemthing we know we would not have done, but did not intend to perhaps we just had 1 drink more and underestimated the effects it would have. Imagine having that loss of contro without having taken anyting or done anything ourselves for it to happen. That is what it is like having bipolar to start with.
Some do indeed use more drugs and alcohol whe in a high, as they lose control, and some use deliberately in an attenmpt to control their symptoms of depression , desperate to sleep, not realising it will compound their depressuon, or trigger or worsen an emerging manic phase in others ( Particularly if not stabilised or yet diagnosed, and may not realise it actually makes things worse, or to calm down the agitation or restlessness of a high ( manic/ hypomanic ), but more often to prolong the euphoric high after a depression, having already lost decision making skills about how much to have or when to leave it.
But imagine losing control over what you do next, without any alcohol or drugs in your system ,as the judgement goes when high. That is a vet frightening to know that can come on at any time, and soem can see it coming and others can not, about 50 % lose insight in their mood changing and just beleive they are very well
If you have bipolar, this loss of judgement and loss of inhibtion that nornally allows us to censor our own thoughts actions and behaviour and curb the impulses,it can happen spontaneously ) at its worst and cause people to do and say and act out things that are trully out of their awareness and out of their feasible control, which I accept is very hard for the average person to grasp, accept or forgive, or put in the context of an illness.
But that is a medical Fact ! For those of you who clearly don’t know it by your comments and are judging without real knowledge or understanding of how this illness affects the brain of thos affected.THese people are being punished in your eyes, and desperately want that control and ability to take responsibilty which they are robbed of through no fault of their own. This is a genetic illness and can come on at ny time in someones life, so be aware. You may end up on the other side of the moral high ground, and start acting very out of character, walking out of yoir loving home, selling your house, and having that crazy affair for no apparent reason, starting soem darf business or blowing all your families savings, or propositioning your doctor in a public toilet, evn though you have been a respected teacher or socail worker or great mother or father up till last week with no histrory of this kind of bizarre behaviour,
They then come crashing down to see what you have done and can not for the life of you understand it. This could be any of you tommorrow.
How frightening would that feel then, to wake up ashamed at home, or in a hospital bed or worse still in a police cell with listtle recollection or understanding of how everything snowballed out of ypour control. Would yoi not try to justify it then or find soem logical explanation, and hope socirty and family looks kindly on you and that yoi have a good lawyer or psychiatrist to defenbd you !!
THis could bne any of us tommorrow, and what we need tod o is stop thinking of people with mental illnbess as a breed apart. We could joing them tommorrow upon waking, just as we could develop any other physiocal, biological illness, such as a brain tumour, cancer of any part of the body, diabetes, or a whole host of other chronic illnesses. Memtal illness is a phydiocal brain abnormality of function just like any other malfunctioning organ. IF it were affecting the stomach, it would just present with out of control gastric symptoms ! Who is responsible then
If individuals were fully compos mentis they would never choose to do the things they do, and most go to great lenghts to try to self manage and take meds once diagnosed and treated , often quite inadequately, so that isn’t the answer, or an acceptable reason to then expect Full Responsibilty of them, as most are only partially stabilised on medication, if it is even the right ones.It is too simplistic to say once someone knows they have a problem and is on treatment, then they are fully responsibke fir what hapens next. That is like saying we can control other illnesses once we knwoe we hae them are on soem level of tteatment. We can not determoine the progressive nature of any illness or control sudden deteriorations. Psychiatrists are not Gods, and neither are we.
This is a moralistic high ground approach commonly held by society. I agree once soemone knows they have a problem, and have been given a diagnosis and started to embark on treatment and education and counselling oif they are lucky enough to be offereed that or can afford it and have the capacity to learn quite complicated medical stuff, then they should ofcourse di their level best to take respoinsibility wherec thet can and infirm themsleves and do all they can to stay well, but soemtimes the illness takes over just as it does in all other illnesses, however hard the individual has tried and however committed they are when well to taking responsibilty.
Even Well People judging be
haviour in such individuals have not grasped the basic understanding of how this illness works, so haw can they expect the average person with it who is unwell and possibly not thinkng a clearly some of the time to understand it?
I aggree There is much work that the individual can do to alter lifestyle, but not everyone has the circumstances in which to do this, or the educational ability to understand or make these changes or requirements to keep themsleves atleast better than they would do without making changes to lifestyle. But that is still no guarantee they will stay completely well, especially with more severe forms such as rapid cycling, ultra rapid cycling, or very severe manias.
Some people with Bipolar Disorder may have dual diagnosis, such as addiction to substances or alcohol or gambling etc, or OCD, just like anyone else can have multiple problems with or withour a mentla illness on top,and may well have a range of other social or financial or prsonal family problems by the time they reach diagnosis, which amy or may not have been brought about ir worsened by the illness, but may be primary and just execerbate the illness. Some amy also have personality disorder overlaps too. This realy complicates behaviour. However, Bipolar, this biochemical illness in someone even from the ideal moral background and where there has been good moral education, financial resources , good socil support etc, still insites clssic destructive or difficult, ot in some dangerous or aggressive typical behaviours associated with loss of inhibition, that are so universal in those with this illness , yet to varying degress I must stress, that it is clear they are “symptoms” of an illness just like a low blood sugar in a diabetic, and are not behaviors of lack of moral choice or judgement, or we would not find people with disorder committing such identical behaviours more often, just as other illnesses have a typical symptom presentation specific to that particular illness,though as I SAY IN VARYING DEGREES DEPENDING ON THE LEVEL OF THEIR ILLNESS and level of their insight and level of their treatment. The behaviours diminish directly proportionate to the degress of stabilisation and this can be seen in peoples ability to control them to a better degree or anticipate or preempt their own behaviours or talk themselves out of something they would previously just follow the impulse to do.
THESE BEHAVIOURS which are being judged above ARE PURE SYMPTOMS, AND NOT WITHIN THE INDIVIDUALS CONTROL MOre OFTEN.
THEY CAN ONLY LOOK OUT FOR THEM, AND THE ASSOCITED FEELINGS ,AND BE AWARE OF THE BUILD UP OF THOUGHTS ASSOCAITED WITH THEM ONCE THEY ARE SUFFICIENTLY WELL VERSED IN THE ILLNESS AND HAVE SUFFICIENT STABILITY. THIS MAY TAKE TEARS OR MAY NEV BE FULY ACHIEVED I SOME DUE TO LACK OF INSIGHT CAUSED BY LASCK POFTREATEMENT COMPOUNDED SOMETIMES BY RESISTANCE
Sorry For dreadful typing errors above, But I hope you got the general drift.
Disappointed to see that the last few paragraphs of my comment have been cut off . There was nothing offensive in it, just a conclusion. I should be grateful if the administrators could reprint my comment it in full, or return it to me if they would like me to correct typing mistakes. I note there are many/ Whoops. Never mind, the sentiment still comes through I sincerely hope. Jill
Hi Jill,
Your post was not edited, it truncated due to character limits. Perhaps you could post your last paragraph in another reply? I could then edit your first post noting that it continues below.
Kim
Kimberly Read
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Kimberly Read & Marcia Purse
Your About Guides to Bipolar Disorder
http://bipolar.about.com
email: bipolar.guide@about.com
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Thank you For reply, That explains it, but I do not have a copy of my original post and do not seem to be abe to back track or obtain it on my cmputer I have tried. I hoped you had a copy, then I could post it in another comment and edit if necessary. If you do have the full version or can obtain it soemhow, I should be grateful of you would email it to me. Did it all come through to you before it was limited ? Thank you. Jill.
As I said, there were many missing paragraphs, jot just one.Thank you For reply, That explains it, but I do not have a copy of my original post and do not seem to be abe to back track or obtain it on my computer I have tried. I hoped you had a copy, then I could post it in another comment and edit if necessary. If you do have the full version or can obtain it soemhow, I should be grateful of you would email it to me. Did it all come through to you before it was limited due to characters being too many. I wish I could remember exactly what I said , but I would like the opportunity to complete my points.Thank you. Jill.
I have BP with severe anxiety. For people who tell me to just “not worry” when I’m having an anixiety attack, “just cheer up” when I’m depressed — I like to use the analogy of trying to tell an autistic person, “why can’t you just learn better!”
Jill, I would have liked to have read the rest of your comment. You have obviously experienced as much pain in dealing with your husband’s illness as my family has in dealing with my daughter’s. While I would not wish this illness on my worst enemy, I’d like for DivorceSupport, Wendy, Sandy, Tracy and others like them to be able to experience it for just a couple of weeks themselves or in a loved one, and then come back and tell us we are using the illness as an excuse for bad behavior.
I wish you the best.
hi
Yeah I am bipolar type 1 with psychotic disorder and when I go manic I have a hard time touching the ground although I have tried medicines in hope that they stop this.Ifound your article very offensive and wished I could tell you to your face
I loved this post. Well said! I am so tired of hearing the most horrid behaviors of society excused or blamed for by bipolar disorder. Some of us consider bipolar disorder to be a gift. I am a mother of 3, and care for my 2 grandparents, while attending school full time and working. I highly doubt I would be able to accomplish half of what I do if I was not bipolar. This disorder is not responsible for bad behavior. We are responsible to know if we have the wrong impulses and should seek treatment. We are blessed with the gift of truly feeling life and being able to see the beauty in anything. Thank you for pointing out that there are plenty of members of society that are intelligent and productive with this disorder and do not commit obscene crimes.
Bipolar is an excuse for people to be emotionally lazy. Everyone is Bipolar, and most of us have to exhibit something called a little self restraint. What just because we haven’t been diagnosed with Bipolar, we’re UniPolar. Everyone is Bipolar, Multipolar, whatever. Bipolar is nice marketing term to sell drugs to emotionally lazy people. Further more because health care cost so much, it gives people who cant afford it an excuse for their awful behavior they would otherwise try to control like the rest of us. The power of the mind in controlling it self is amazing. Sure, some people may need to train their brain a little more than others. Who needs to put forth any effort anymore when we have these instant magic pills for Bipolar, Depression, Weight lose, etc…
Here is someone who gets it, and has been diagnosed with Bipolar.
http://www.helium.com/items/581567-bipolar-disorder-illness-or-excuse
The M’Naughton Rule is a significant legal concept, by which a person may not be convicted of an offense if they were not capable of understanding the significance of their act(s), or not capable of forming criminal intent.
Psychosis is common as a symptom in acute cases of Bipolar Affective Disorder.
No one chooses to be affected by Bipolar Affective Disorder. It’s no fun!! Bin there, done dat.
Insanity is all about not being able to appreciate, among other things, the consequences of one’s actions.
Sometimes, crazy people do crazy things. That’s just the way the world is.
I know this because I went through what I call a ‘major manic meltdown’ a few years ago. I (grey-haired lady, 105 lbs.) was charged with assault. (He was twice my size, and tackled me in my home, and I bit him – but but not hard enough to break the skin.)
After forensic psychiatric examination, it was decided not to press charges, because I was not, at that time, capable of understanding the significance of my actions.
This is the way the law works, and it doesn’t really make any difference whether someone likes the legal system.
If a person is psychiatrically UNABLE to understand the significance of their actions, they cannot be held responsible for them.
It’s not just an act, or a game. Solid forensic evidence is required to establish psychosis.
‘Blaming’ an insane person for behaving insanely is a way of thinking that belongs with burning witches.
Would you be ‘offended’ by a person who couldn’t run because s/he had a broken leg??
I stumbled on this and it got me thinking.
I’m not legal person and the circumstance seems to have a legal focus. My two cents worth.
I try to avoid rigid constructs that narrow perspective. I try to be broadly “compassionate” and I seek “wisdom”. Sure I have values, principles and standards. I try not negatively impact others in my course through life.
In recent years I have been the victim of, lets call it others “bad behavior”. Greed, theft, people with addictions and other good things. I’ve found myself re accessing my notions of people taking responsibility for their actions and what I see as the prevalence of excuses.
There can be lots of reasons for ones actions but I think we have to be careful not accept them as excuses. If some “thing” has been perpetrated on an another, some innocent party, with negative consequences, a victim, then one hopes that justice can prevail.
It is the action and consequences of the action that must first be considered. If their are tangible, relevant factors that contribute to the occurrence of action then my thinking is that should only have relevance to sentencing rather than contributing to any judgment of guilt. Such things might form the nature/severity of a sentence/punishment but not diminish that something was DONE. It should not EXCUSE that it happened. To do so is to deny the VICTIM their rightful access to JUSTICE under THE LAW. If this thing occurred because someone is ill then they should be required to deal with that illness. If the illness renders them unsafe to others then hopefully society can deal with that compassionate to ill individual and protecting of wider society.
If I have this wrong then please tell me.
I agree. If the guy did IT (and it seems like he DID) then he has committed a crime under the law. If he IS bipolar and their is a proven connection with such behavior then this might be considered in terms of the nature and severity of sentencing (excuse my terminology, I have an English background)
Book him Dano.
DivorceSupport said:
It is about taking responsibility for your actions no matter what mental illness you suffer from. Mental illness is not an excuse for bad behavior and those who try to use it as one belittle all others with such a disorder and shed a negative light on them.
It offends me deeply when others don’t hold themselves accountable…mental illness or not.
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I couldn’t agree more! And we as a society should hold people accountable as well. I don’t want to hear about bipolar disorder when someone commits a crime. If you really cannot control your actions then you should not be walking the streets anyway.
Here is someone who gets it, and has been diagnosed with Bipolar.
http://www.helium.com/items/581567-bipolar-disorder-illness-or-excuse
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This post is also right on the money.
To Jason and AR above:
The link you referred to gives people the opportunity to “vote” on bipolar being an illness or excuse. Overwhelmingly, ILLNESS has been chosen 85 percent to 15 percent!
And to AR specifically who stated: “I don’t want to hear about bipolar disorder when someone commits a crime. If you really cannot control your actions then you should not be walking the streets anyway.”
Do you even know anyone with a mental illness? How medieval are you? Would you put an autistic child or an epileptic or someone with Down’s or Asperger’s or Tourette’s Syndrome in the “asylum” just because they cannot necessarily control certain actions? Shame on you! You may not be able to SEE that someone has bipolar disorder just by looking at them–you cannot POSSIBLY know the hurt or fear or anxiety that they feel–all because of a disorder of the brain. YES, it’s a physical disorder of the brain. I’m not just using it as an excuse. Brain scans of patients with bipolar or schizophrenia are different than those of patients showing no such symptoms.
Do either of you (Jason and AR) understand that, NO, NOT EVERYONE IS BIPOLAR! I am so tired of hearing that from people! Teenagers can be hormonal and moody, yes, but that is totally NOT the same as someone having a complete manic episode or depressive breakdown. Women going through PMS or menopause have mood swings and hot flashes–NOT BIPOLAR DISORDER.
Do not justify the behavior of doing drugs and compare it to my experience. I have never done drugs and I rarely drink.
I was valedictorian of my high school class and graduated from college with a degree in fine arts. I worked as a graphic designer and art director for 15 years. I was married and had 2 children. I was doing well. Then I started having panic attacks. I started getting more and more depressed. One day I would feel as though I could accomplish anything–only to want to crawl under a rock and stay there the next day. I just KNEW that everyone would hate me if they knew who I REALLY was. I tried to act as though everything was fine, but I felt worthless–like my kids would be better off without me. I did NOT have a diagnosis as an “excuse.” I just knew something was going very wrong. I tried to keep going in this way–being exhausted, but not being able to sleep, more frequent panic attacks, irrational fears, wanting to get in my car and just drive around at night, yelling at my loved ones for no reason–but I finally went to see a doctor and then a counselor. I have been to 3 different psychiatrists and 3 different counselors to make sure I had a correct diagnosis. Unlike what you say, I did not want to just have a diagnosis as an “excuse” to justify my behavior. I wanted to know the TRUTH.
Bipolar is a very complex disorder and, as with other illnesses, I’m sure there are some people misdiagnosed. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I was diagnosed with Bipolar II, BPD, and Panic & Anxiety Disorder. If you don’t know what BPD is, Jason and AR, it’s Borderline Personality Disorder. Look it up, maybe you can use that one as an excuse, too. I am trying to do the best I can, with what I have and deal with people like you, who treat those of us with a mental illness as liars or fakers. Believe me, I DON’T WANT TO BE LIKE THIS! I’m pretty sure, most of us with bipolar or bpd would rather NOT have to take medication everyday and be looked down upon. If I could, I would give it to you so YOU could use it as an excuse for your sorry life.
TO JASON !! I think you are soooo stupid or just have been hurt by someone who is bipolar. You have no idea what it is like to be so depressed you cant get up, want to die, feel trapped in a black hole with no way out, and so very alone. Then mania hits and you are awake for days, and are unable to sleep, concentrate, focus, complete simple tasks, know what ur doing is not a good idea but you cant stop it and I mean literally you CANT. I think alot of the problem is there is over diagnosis over biplor disorder but to us who have this life sucking, debilitating illness it is very real. Thanks for making me feel horrible about myself and making me feel lazy and worthless. I as well as many other biploar suffers feel this all the time any way , and have sooo much guilt because of it. As far as legality, this man should be held accountable. He has just been blessed with the disease and now has to suffer the consequences. The punishment is the only thing that will be effected by his dx of bipolar. So til u walk a day in my shoes. Until you pray that god would take your life so your suffering could finally end. SHUT THE F!!! UP
Lori and all of you bipolars are nothing but victims playing on the secondary gains you receive as a result of your manufactured illness – to include; attention, ‘don’t expect as much from me as you would ‘normal’ people’; I’ll need extra help, sleep, special teachers, professors, councelors, medications, and much much more because I am not responsible for my affliction.
You can not argue with the truth – whatever your ‘disposition’ – you must take responsibility for your quality of life and your ability to function in society. Most of it – just self-pity, excuses, and the need to separate yourselves from the rest of society. Like the “Eagles” song states: “Get Over It!”
First of all i cannot believe that title of topic was allowed on this mailing list. Thee is no other way to take it as but a personal attack on people with bipolar ! I found it to be very offensive.
I came to this site. taking responsabily of learning about my bipolar, and for the most part is has been every educational, emotional attacks such as is int his mailing are not helpful to anyone.
Example:
Dan Acton if you ever break your leg, take responsabily, walk on it, and while you are at it, dont look for compassion.
Further more, take note. if you do research i am most assured that many bipolar people have been victims in numerous ways already and for some poor treatment makes things trigger. Some folks are bullied far too much. Some things you do not snap out of. ALso there is the time span for the doctors to get you on proper medication too.
ps Jill i liked your posting .
Smile small minds lurk around rise above them.
Bipolar disorder runs genetically in my family — my mother, my elder son, and I have all been formally diagnosed with it. I have on my wall something which I composed many years ago. It reads, “Mental illness provides an explanation, but not an excuse.”
Jill – Wow. I thought your post was amazing and I would love to see the end of it. After reading it, I was thinking “are you sure you don’t have Bipolar Disorder?” You have clearly educated yourself and you have amazing compassion and understanding.
Thank you Bill. Very well said.
And thank you Kimberly. I do understand the point you are trying to make.
Some comments have been mean about people who have to live with bipolar disease. I feel ‘mad’. I guess I’ll tell you of the times when I was depressed and filled with horror at the morning light. I feared that anything done, would be done wrong. I wanted my same clothes on 24/7. The feeling of peeling them off to bathe was one of discomfort and loss. I felt scrutinized under constant survailance by hidden cameras, which I also suspected might not realy be there. Shame gripped me all the time. I could barely eat. I thought I never slept.
One time, I lay in a hopital bed in Mexico and observed my parents struggle with spanish. I would not speak to help them. I let them feed me by spoon when I could have lifted a spoon. I felt ashamed but could not yet try to relate to them. It was a desparate situation also, because I had two tiny kids of my own.
My illness was not an ‘excuse’. I did get well enough to go home, and continued to improve. My xhusband thought I used it as an excuse. Every time it has reappeared in its most devastating form, it has taken me down. It always takes a toll on my kids and other family. I’ve been stable on Lithium for over 6 years now.
The issue of personal responsibility and mental illness is simply too complicated for most of us-perhaps all of us to wrap our hands around. We are responsible in my mind for only that which we can appreciate, understand and control. Where that line lies at any given time and in any given case is a judgment call–often made by people who arent smart enuf or unbiased enough to make the call. I believe that everyone has an obligation to try to act responsibly towards themselves and others–sometimes by virtue of mental disease thats not possible. I have spent 30 years in the criminal justice system representing many young men of limited intelligence that suffer from mood disorders. Its tuff enough being bipolar–imagine what it is like to have all of that raging energy and no intellectual ability to channel it! what’s worse then being bipolar– being Dumb and having bipolar disorder and an underdeveloped brain—what you get–a running raging id machine! Im not into passing judgment-im into stopping the train wreck–
which takes me to another point- there are a helluva lot of us higher functioning bipolars out there that have dedicated our lives to taking care of our sicker brothers–taking on low paying jobs and being frequently misunderstood and criticized for our efforts. we stay in the the closet because we arent interested in being marginalized by stupid people who would use our illness against us and harm our effectiveness.
well I can relate to the pain that one feels when one is married to a wicked person who gives bipolar a bad name, I must get off of this Bipolar Express which is a constant barrage of, well just craziness.
I agree with Kimberly. Brian was a little rough on her up there. Of course we have all done some very bad things when manic or hypomanic, but I think her point is that why is it only the bad that gets sensationalized? There are tons of productive, well behaving, medication compliant bipolar persons around who don’t go this far. Also, anytime someone opens fire on a crowd of ppl or does anything bizarre, the headlines read “bipolar gone mad”, etc. I get sick of it personally.
Kudos to you Kimberly!
This is a column set up for support!?
I also am a closet BP, suffering the insults and consequences of the disease on my behavior. There are times when (mania) I cannot control my speaking… not just what I say, but the act of speaking itself. It is embarrassing in my situation (College Professor). I doubt exposing my BP would change the situation much.
People don’t change their mind very often, even when given in-depth background knowledge. Their strong beliefs (true or not) close the door to real knowledge and understanding.
NO I am NOT offended by this. Why should I be? I suffer enough already just having the illness! Why bother adding to the wretchedness of it all. I don’t walk around with a label on my head that says “I’m bipolar, please DON’T judge me!”. I don’t need to, cos anyone who see’s me when either down or manic can damn well tell something is wrong.
I’ve learnt that try as you may to explain how bipolar may be affecting you to even just the few closest people to you…. they’re not going to understand easily. Those that try to, good on them for they are few and far between.
JILL, what you said is amazing! THANK YOU for putting what you said on here, it was so worth all the typo’s!!
I’ve been bipolar since my early teens, i’m 31 now and only in the past 3years has the closest person to me come to realise exactly what BD is and how it affects ME personally. That person is my mum. And for all her intelligence, it took a major horrific event that triggered alcoholism which lead to repeated suicide attempts, re-sus in ambulances, intensive care, life support, weeks, months and in total adds up to almost 2 years of my life hospitalised… its taken that for her to understand. I got married this year to my partner of 2 yrs and whilst he is so incredibly supportive, it is difficult to understand the daily effects and cycles of bipolar. I found this website 2 months ago, i typed into google ‘what is wrong with me’ out of utter desperation, and wow, it has been the best way to show my loved ones what the deal with me is when i’m not well enough to express it or even fully perceive it for myself.
As my manic episodes are rare and generally only last between 12-24hours these days I can’t say that I get too crazy any more, just ecstatically happy and energetic then i fizzle out.
BUT in my teens up until around age 26 the mania was definately more reckless, longer lasting and I didn’t even know it was happening to me, let or lone be in any condition to control myself. I only got into dilemmas though when I was also drinking heavily or had taken some party drugs with friends. Thats going to get anyone into trouble though isn’t it. I’ve been touched up and accosted so many times in night clubs and on the town, its not funny, although nothing uncontrollable ever happened. I doubt any of them were bipolar OR public figures!
FACT: A perfect human being, does not exist! Nobody is perfect. We must ALL KNOW by now that the people in our lives we expect are the most moral, respected, and capable of knowing appropriate behaviour (whats right and whats just WRONG!) STILL F*** UP! Nobody can be trusted. Need I mention Bill Clinton? Fathers that abuse? Revered religious figures, doctors, teachers, child-care and social workers, law enforcement, celebs we think we know and love…wow just a small example. Be it from illness, medical treatment, stress- emotional triggers, or environmental factors – these include substance abuse, misuse of any compounds that adversely affect the body however un-intentional like eating toxin inducing foods, pollution, exposure etc., etc. – how anyones brain stays healthy and doesn’t venture near some kind of madness at some point in their life does not make sense to me. Ok now add bipolar. People will milk it and there are liars and fakes and hypochondriacs in every field of life, exploiting everything and everyone. Bipolar isn’t the 1st or last condition to get a false wrap.
I do not feel my illness is being exploited by the senator. I don’t care what happens to him, as long as the victimised women can move on, they’ve got no choice really, he can’t go and UN-touch them. I would like to think the senator will have already established a network around him to help prevent re-offending, if his actions were indeed committed in a manic state.
Should anyone commit stupid offences without intent while hyper manic, then i think they should be punished or warned (depending on severity i guess) accordingly with consideration to their illness AND given a CHANCE to prevent it happening again. If someone re-offends then they should be re-assessed and dealt with more severely. However proving to be uncontrollable or dangerous, for whatever reason then they have to be removed from society, that goes without saying doesn’t it?
Ofcourse I wish people were more aware of bipolar disorder and not have hurtful misconceptions of us, but our resources are limited, in every country in the world as to what we can do. General depression is far more widespread. And even though my bipolar condition may very well cause my death and has had me on deaths door already many times, more people have diabetes and people make their lives hell by not understanding diabetes too, blaming them for not controlling it or causing it. I’m also a type 1 insulin dependant diabetic IDDM. It is at times as unbearable as bipolar too. Blood sugar levels affect your moods quickly and severely, its awful! I say that because, you needn’t be getting all upset about this issue… don’t waste your precious energy, not like we need to have “Bipolar & Mental Illness Pride” parades.
Sorry I know I did a long-winded version of most of your blogs, 90% of which were great. Some people are ignorant, what do you do? Its their problem not ours!
Question: Whats a person like Jason doing on this blog and this site?? You’re so ignorant and callous Jason, I could almost feel sad for you!
Some ignorant people seem to be in denial about others having Bipolar Disorder. So I consider my self Tripolar. You see I have three ‘lives’ – manic, normal & depressive. When I regain a normal mood after an episode it always appears to others as if I was faking the episode. Hey – they say – this guy can be perfectly sane. He is acting up most of the time. So what I am supposed to do to ‘prove’ that I truly have a most miserable condition called BIPOLAR DISORDER which makes my life a living hell. Am I supposed to stand at the corner and throw stones at cars? Am I supposed to run naked on the street? Am I supposed to molest women? Well, I am Bipolar and I have not and do not do those things. That is TODAY, after six years of painful trial and error treatment. HOWEVER I have done some really wretched and crazy things BEFORE successful treatment.
I was diagnosed very late at the age of 40, although I suspect that I have been Bipolar most of my life. After six years of treatment and four pdocs later, I have achieved some semblance of stability. TODAY, when I look back I cannot believe the crazy, wretched things I have done. Was it REALLY ME?
At that time I WANTED to deperately, but could not control my impulses. To that extent I am CONVINCED that I was NOT RESPONSIBLE for my actions then. Today my pdoc has got the medications and the dosage right. I do not miss a single dose. I AM ABLE to change my life style TODAY. I have the good judgement now. I could NOT earlier, try as I might. Trust me disbelievers. TODAY I am responsible MOST of the time. However this is a life-long illness, like diabetes, and there are STILL occasional mood swings when I do not feel in control – but my past experience and understanding and awareness of the warning signals of an episode help me to avoid trouble. BUT in the true sense I am LESS in control.
Bipolar is an EXCUSE for those who don’t have it and want to get away with bad behaviour. It is an ILLNESS for those who have been to BIPOLAR hell and back. It is TROUBLE (legal) for those who are undiagnosed or wrongly diagnosed or have not reached the correct medication and dosage. There are no blood tests for knowing the severity of Bipolar disorder (unlike diabetes). So people who have it cannot PROVE it. But medical science is trying to reach there, and I am sure that many of the GENIUSES that are working on it must be BIPOLAR. ‘Normal’ people are just not upto great achievements. The best they can do is to run down those with Bipolar. But aren’t we ‘eccentric’ and ‘crazy’ enough to forgive the ignorant and the semi-literate and the bigoted
.
After great struggle I am NOW a RESPONSIBLE person. That is to say I am MOSTLY in the ‘normal’ pole. I am losing my BIPOLAR poles (mania and depression). So from Tripolar I have become unipolar. And you know what ? – life is so easy now that I can’t believe that ‘normal’ people had it so easy all their lives !!!!! Or did they ? – POOR guys – they had no excuse for laziness and bad behaviour. But then nor did they have BIPOLAR disorder. IGNORANCE is BLISS for these philistines.
I read this question and thought back to when I was in treatment for substance abuse. I was hypomanic both times and it was very difficult to control myself. Yet people seemed to be drawn to me because even in that state I had a fair amount of insight into my problems. I was very careful to stay away from impressionable newcomers and really tried to control my outbursts. I don’t believe we should be totally excused for bad behavior. This is the same thing I say to another bp friend whose son has aspergers syndrome and many times behaves badly towards her.
I have read ever comment above and am appalled at some and want to thank all of you… I have a 16 yr old daughther that I have “lost” for 3 very long yrs. She has been in and out of hosp. and now is in an a program, but not living with me. She is in an IRTP and has been since Feb 09. I get to bring her home on Weekends and it is AWESOME… I say “lost” because I did not know this little girl that was not sleeping, not eatting, abusing me, trying to hurt herself and others. She would disappear for days on end. I would drop her off at the front door of school, watch her walk in and I would get a phonecall 10 min later to tell me she did not make it to homeroom. She was diaganosed, BP and BPD, but I felt like a failure. After 2 yrs of being in and out of the hosp. In Feb 09 Went to a world known Hosp in Boston, MA and was told by the dr that this was all my fault, to stop using BP as an excuse, I was to balme for all of my daughters actions. She took my daughter off ALL her meds and told me to take her home. Well, three weeks later, outr life fell completely apart. My daughter, disappeared, She would text me every 3 min. to a point that I thought I was loosing my mind. She took up drugs and drinking. Her counselor saw this coming, and did everything she could to help us. I finally got the call,”mommy, please come get me” of course I ran..My husband and I got in the car and went to get her. got her home, to only have her loose it again with in 5 min. iu had a little girl one minute and a totally out of control kid the next. She went into my kitchen, grabbed a very large, very sharp carbing knife, she cut her right arm open and then her left. As we tried to get close to her, she would throw the knives at me. I called 911 and they arrved in time to thank god save my daughters life, Yes, this happened right in front of me… I close my eyes at night and see this everynight… But with the helop of DMH and alot of support from her IRTP staff. We are getting better everyday. She is back on her meds and is like a teenager that is “normal” (not that there really is a normal teenager)She still has mood swings, but has not cut herself and has no urges to do that. She is starting to understand what had happened in the past three yrs. She truoy has no idea of what she did and how bad it was, but I do and I will NEVER REMIND HER…
I am happy to say tht she is coming home soon and I cannot wait.
So, to those of you that think BP is an excuse please come walk in my shoes for just one day. See what I have seen and been through for three extremly long yrs, look through my eyes and see what has happened to my “normal” family. (my husband, my son, my DAUGHTER and a house with a white picket fence, a pool, a dog and the perfect dream) We now live an a condo, no fence, no dog, no pool, NO DAUGHTER Because of medical bills and loosing our home, all to “fix” our daughter. So until you walk in our shoes stop judging people with BP and their families…
We have payed for all of our daughters”mistakes” financially and with our blood… Yes, she got in trouble with the law.. but now it was worth evry dime, every sleepless night adn every time my heart was broken… To finally have a diagnoes and be abe to help her…
ps. I would like to “Thank” the dr that last Feb 09, stopped my daughters meds.. because with her my family would not be where we are right now. TRUTH be told, my daughter would most likely be dead.
SO, STOP JUDGING PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ARE “CRAZY”